Kelby, you may have seen this, I don't know? But this is my first attempt at a four piece back, I think it looks great and have no problems about using it.
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| Author: | Kelby [ Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 am ] |
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The other day I checked with Eisenbrand hardwoods to see if they had any Ziricote 8" wide; nope, it's all 6" or less. I was disappointed. But then the other night I was awake late, and popped in the first of the Benedetto DVDs. I hadn't seen them in a while. When it gets to the part about joining the soundboard, he says "Often the wood isn't big enough to make a 17" guitar, so I trim a 1 or 2 inch-wide piece from the top half of the outside edge and glue it to the bottom half." He then shows a joined top with which he has done precisely that. He explains that as long as you keep the pieces oriented correctly, the grain will match well enough that no one will ever notice. Now, at the time, Benedetto was getting something $10k for his entry-level models. He wasn't at all ashamed of gluing up a multi-piece top. I then remembered that for my second guitar (an archtop), I did the same thing. (It didn't turn out nearly as well as the Benedetto. In fact, it is the only guitar I have made that turned out so bad that I threw it away because it wasn't worth the space it took up in my house. Not because of the multi-piece top, though; that part was fine.) I guess over the past few years I have developed an illogical aversion to four-piece tops and backs. I need to get over it. I smell a trip to Eisenbrand in my future. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:27 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Kelby]I guess over the past few years I have developed an illogical aversion to four-piece tops and backs. I need to get over it.[/QUOTE] Indeed. Four pieces of exceptional wood will make a better top or back than two pieces of lesser quality. You can hide it, as you said, or, especially with a back, you could actually embellish it and make it part of your design. If you can't hide it, make it look pretty! |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:09 pm ] |
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I don't have the facility to saw over 4" wide so all my backs are 4 or even 5 piece. I've had compliments (from other builders) on the repetitive symetry, and I've never had a problem with tone. next start will probably try out the big blocks of oak I managed to scrounge yesterday!! |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:28 am ] |
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Kelby, you may have seen this, I don't know? But this is my first attempt at a four piece back, I think it looks great and have no problems about using it.
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:54 am ] |
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Lance, I think you have a very fine eye for matching grain! Course it doesn't hurt that your back has more stripes than a Zebra! |
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| Author: | phil c-e [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:14 pm ] |
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lance, i love the look. and i love the idea of using narrower boards for the noble purpose of making music. what do you do about a back reinforcement strip? do you forego it all together, or do you try to disguise the four pieces by installing a single strip up the middle? and while i'm at it, is that strip all that necessary anyway? some companies (like larivee i believe) don't even bother on a two piece back. i've now built three guitars with three piece backs and have reinforced the seams on two of them. i suspect all three guitars will share the same long term integrity. what do you guys think? phil |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:38 pm ] |
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Wow, Lance, that is spectacular! I am also anxious to hear about what you do for reinforcement of the joints that aren't in the center. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:42 pm ] |
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This is my first 4 piece back, so take this for what its worth, BUT I intend to only use the single reinforcement down the center. I use epoxy to glue these plates together, after I cut out the profile, I tried to break each seam on the cut offs, each time it broke next to the seam and not ON the seam, this leads me to believe the seam is strong enough on its own. |
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| Author: | spruce [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:21 am ] |
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An acceptance of 4-piece tops in Red Spruce would sure cut down on costs and increase the gene pool... Unless it caught on, of course... 
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:45 pm ] |
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I would love to try a 4 piece addy top, I think it would be fine.. |
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| Author: | arvey [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:42 pm ] |
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A fellow I know made a clasical guitar with a top made from scraps of white spruce and the back from Mahognay scraps. I can't remember how many pieces were in the top but it was at least 6 and the back was even more pieces. Sounded great and looked, interesting... |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:51 pm ] |
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As many of you will know, Torres, who I think we can say built quite good guitars, often used multi piece backs and also used a number of multi piece tops. He didn't have access to the fine tonewood suppliers we have now, it is even said that he cut up a door lintel to use the wood. His philosophy was to use the best wood available, usually unmatched and uneven in size, on his tops if that meant 3 or 4 pieces that is what he did. Colin |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:18 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=LanceK] I use epoxy to glue these plates together[/QUOTE] Ok Lance, technique question....... when I glue plates I wrap top & bottom with polythene to stop the whole lot sticking to the table or the weight I set on top to stop it bursting upwards. (Ain't it great to get big blocks of heavy wood for free?!!) 
How do you clamp with epoxy to keep it flat and not stuck anywhere it shouldn't be? |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:31 pm ] |
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So you wrap your plate in plastic after you apply glue? I wouldn't do that. It seems that would interfere with the drying time.... I just put a piece of wax paper down first and if necessary I put a small piece of wax paper on my weight so it won't stick... but usually I try to keep the weight off the seam. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:22 am ] |
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Not a good idea at all. The glue will not dry. Like Brock suggests. Waxpaper on the top & bottom in the seam area. Hey Brock is that the coco I re-sawed for you? |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:54 am ] |
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the point of the poly is to stop it sticking vertically. never had a problem sideways!! but ricepaper. that'll work with epoxy too? |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:59 am ] |
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Martin, I used non-stick baking paper from Tescos... ....with Aliphatic Resin glue, though. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:15 am ] |
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What Bob and Brock said, waxpaper is good insurance with any glue. Martin, you're a lucky dude too, finding all that wood for free is a great thing, cool!  I scrounge whatever i can here as well!
I wouldn't mind doing multiple piece tops and backs after what was written here, i saw a pic of a very nice guitar that had 6 or 8 pieces in the back lately here, can't remember who had built it, i find it is interesting in terms of creativity also! |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:22 pm ] |
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Martin, here is my set ups for joining plates,I use the same deal for back and sides. 
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:55 pm ] |
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I think 4 piece tops and backs are fine. My first mandolin was made with leftover materials from various redecorating projects on my house. Like most wooden houses up here, my house from 1937 built with spruce (picea abies), and acording to the original owner it was actually logged at the property. So this mandolin has a 4 piece top that used to be wall siding, maple back, sides and neck from a door (?), the rosewood and ebony I probably bought. 
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:47 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Bobc] Not a good idea at all. The glue will not dry. Like Brock suggests. Waxpaper on the top & bottom in the seam area. Hey Brock is that the coco I re-sawed for you?[/QUOTE] Lance pried it out of my hands... I can't wait to see what he does with it. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:03 am ] |
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Arnt, that was your first mando???!! WOW my friend, turned out real nice! |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:54 am ] |
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Ladies and gentlemen. I type from the moral highground. today I spent a very pleasant hour in the company of one George Lowden........ some of you may have heard of him? Well, I'd forgotten all about this thread till he pulled out a drawer that was actually his wedged joining unit and what was there to stop the glue sticking the board to the bottom of the drawer? Yup, polythene. 
I mentioned how I'd been pilloried by you guys and he says he's always done it like that!!!! Each to thier own I guess, If y'all want to buy wax paper, rice paper or news paper that's fine, but being cheap I'll just use the poly bag that the AA Stewmac tops come it!!! 
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